From the Cape Cod Times
Typically, whenever there is the slightest positive news, the old “sign now” and “it’s coming” crowd get all excited. If this bill makes it through Congress – which is far from certain – it might look very different. One serious option being discussed is to allow the SOI to take land into trust, but not for off reservation gaming.
REELWamps has a more sober view of some possibilities.
So don’t panic folks. There are so many hurdles left to go. There is no Carcieri fix. There is a proposal for one. Gaming tribes, you know the ones with all the money, have a vested interest in preventing non-gaming tribes from getting casinos. The states are against it. There is still the fact that it may be unconstititional to violate state sovereignty by LIT. There is the Kickapoo decision, there is significant opposition by the state of Massachusetts.
This turkey is still done whether or not someone decides to turn the oven back on.
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Mashpee Wampanoag 
Themocracy
How serious is the October 1st date?
That's anyone's guess.
The REELWamps author(s) seem to have unfettered access to tribal internals. I have to believe they've seen non-redacted copies of the investor agreements.
I would say 10/1 is accurate. Will the investor's avail themselves of their ability to sever the deal? Don't know.
Yeah,but.
The Reel Wamps says 10/1/09 but I was told it is actually 11/4/09. You may see changes in the leadership shortly. I was told something is going to be built there with or without the tribe similar to what they are doing in Palmer..
REEL Wamp(s) is pretty naive and uninformed (like the Middleboro elders), although an amusing insight into a greedy Tribe that ignores its heritage for the sake a gambling gold.
They heard that Foxwood's offspring were feeding at the pig's trough of self indulgence and getting $120K/year and forgot about all else.
Without Carcieri, this tribe can't govern itself, looks like more inditments in their future and wouldnt have gotten LIT.
You follow a convicted felon and expect what?
Bumpkin, not only are you correct about gaming tribes not wanting the privilege extended, but IGRA has been abused in too many states.
Massachusetts would have been one more had this proceeded. The Mashpee Wampanoags have no historical ties to Middleboro except a bingo hall dream. They don't even own the land. The investors were smart enough not to do that.
It does not have to be LIT to build there or need the approval of the IGRA, it can opt for licensing. The state is in the process of approving two licenses and possibly a third if the deal with the tribe falls through.
Reel Wamps are actual tribe members that have seen everything.
I've always felt that the environmentally sensitive nature of the site and the lack of infrastructure made it a poor choice for a casino location.
Also, the zoning of the land would have to be changed by a 2/3 vote of town meeting. Then there's MEPA to get past. The bills currently being discussed do not include a casino in Plymouth County.
But you never know. I'd certainly prefer a commercial over the whole LIT hassle. I'd prefer neither but of the two, commercial would get my vote.
I was under the impression that the tribe had to demonstrate they were an effectively governing body in order to be granted LIT. That seems to be far from the case.
I also can't see the investors throwing good money after bad.
What would be the advantage of a commercial over a tribal casino besides the ability to tax them and not having to deal with tribal courts.
What would be the advantage of a commercial over a tribal casino besides the ability to tax them and not having to deal with tribal courts?.
Among the ones you listed, they are subject to all rules, regulations, fees, and oversight as any other business.
As a for instance, when we wrote the IGA, somebody missed the business about comping – a $2M mistake. If the state adds a new tax or other fee – we just get it. Not so(generally) with a tribal casino. Some tribal casinos have withheld agreed payments – leaving communities with little recourse.
Without having to deal with all that complexity and ambiguity of soverign status, the community, I believe, will be in a better position to protect itself.
The State still has to approve Class III gaming for anything to happen.
If that happens, who will drive all the way to Middleboro for a casino when you can arrive at one in Boston or anywhere along the Mass Pike before reaching Middleboro?
If casinos are legalized in Massachusetts, that renders Middleboro as the one of the worst choices for a casino.
If you're driving down the highway and have to pee really really bad, do you pass the first rest stop or keep driving to one further down the road?
Same with gamblers, why pass one casino to get to one further down the road?
SmokingOwl-You're such a hoot! LOL
When it comes to Casinos, it's too bad ordinary,everday people can't order airstrikes.
If the state legalizes slots, there is absolutely no reason for a commercial investor with half a brain to pursue the lengthy LIT process with a Tribe that has squandered millions.
Smoking Owl, if slots are legalized, you'll have full blown casinos up and running in Raynham and Plainville before you can blink creating market saturation.
LIT only made sense because of Federal highway funds available and land area for expansion and tax exemption.
Now?
Let's not forget about how fast the Plymouth Rock Studios took off.
Check out the profile of the investors and their past projects, there may be a link.
http://www.prosperity-international.com/pastprojects.html
I wonder what will happen as the dates of Oct.1st and or Nov.4th come to pass? Will the 'Honorable' Tribal Council inform the BOS of any change in the status of this 'Project'?
We can be sure that the Middleboro BOS certainly won't ask any questions on there own.
This project has become a noose around our neck. What business would want to move here with this immense black cloud of uncertainty hanging over Middleboro?
We need to put this embarrassing chapter in our history behind us, once and for all.
As for something is going to be "built there with or with out the tribe…" who is going to build it, Herb Strather? That land was given to the town in lieu of unpaid taxes, if that land had any developmental value I seriously doubt the Strair family would have let that occur.
That scenario also entails this whole process starting over again from scratch and I think our townspeople are a lot less likely to look favorably at another "deal". Not to mention the environmental hurdles any type of commercial project would have to clear.
As Bumpkin says "This turkey is done!"
Herb Strather does not own the land anymore and neither does the tribe, the investors do.
Back to the 2nd half of the Pat's.
I'm getting multiple repeat submissions from Wally – that I'm sure he's not doing himself. Some stupid Windows or Internet Explorer thing no doubt.
# 1 – Kerzner does NOT own the land in Middleboro. DOES NOT. The land transferred from Strather to TCAM, which is an LLC owned by Strather and his Michigan cohorts and has nothing to do with Kerzner.
# 2 – Carcieri wasn't the biggest problem for the tribe's dream to build a casino. The problem is with IGRA, and the tribe can't conform to that law in order to build a casino on an initial reservation.
# 3 – The governor has to approve for the land to be taken into federal trust, and he has already filed a letter of objection with the SOI. That alone will put a stop to the tribe's casino.
# 4 – There are other court cases pending in the US which will have an effect on the land into trust process. Some of which are awaiting decisions now. The Carcieri decision may be the tip of the iceburg.
I never mentioned Sol Kerzner but sinced you mentioned his name, please read the following:
From the Providence Business News on June 11, 2007
The Trading Cove at Mashpee partnership – led by Twin Rivers owners Len Wolman, head of resort developer and operator the Waterford Group LLC and managing partner of Trading Cove Associates, the company that developed Mohegan Sun, and Sol Kerzner, chairman and CEO of Kerzner International Ltd. (NYSE: KZL), which has a 50-percent stake in both Trading Cove Associates and the Atlantis, a resort in the Bahamas.
1/5/09
For years, Strather and his investors bankrolled the tribe's quest for federal recognition from the U.S. Bureau of Indian Affairs, upping the ante to $40,000 a month, and later $100,000, according to court documents.
But the process, officially ongoing since the 1970s, still took a lot longer than anticipated. In December 2006, about 10 months after the tribe received a preliminary thumbs up on its federal recognition application, the man from Detroit officially handed over the vast majority of his stake in a proposed casino to a company called Trading Cove, headed up by South African casino developers Sol Kerzner and Len Wolman.
Herb Strather "owns" 125 +/- acres. TCAM (trading cove at Mashpee) which is headed up by S. Kerzner, and L. Wolman, have "options to purchase" the remainder of the land. They can walk away at any time and will only lose a small fee paid to the sellers. Mr. Glendye the State is not in the process of doing "anything" in regards to licenses, or will they be anytime soon. The two main reasons there will "never" be a commercial "anything" built on the proposed site are MEPA guidelines, and cost of infrastructure. Sorry Mr. Glendye, the kool-aid trough has dried up.
Anonymous, I didn't take any personal shots at you, I was just trying to have a conversation.
I have NO stake in this and nothing to gain if it comes or does not. I thought I was conversing with an adult but I was wrong and I'm done with your nonsense!
One other thing before I leave this thread for good.
I didn't write the articles about Sol Kerzner that I posted, real writers did and your comments about me drinking the Kool-aid is off base.
Too much sugar!
Wally,
I am anonymous 3:52 pm, but the anonymous posts after that (about Kerzner) were not mine. I'm frustrated with people who don't check their facts, But I would never be mean about it.
The papers only report what they are told & don't check facts for information that isn't accustory in nature (at least, that's how a reporter explained it to me). The information about TCAM is incorrect. They are an LLC and don't have to publish the principals (owners) on the corporation paperwork. So no one can say for sure who is part of TCAM.
Unless you find a different source. Like SEC filings. Those are usually pretty accurate.
Wally,
Where did the 1/5/09 article come from?
I found the 1/5 article here