Easton – living large with CPA
So I see this article on some CPA expenditures in Easton that were recently approved at town meeting:
Almost $670K spent at one town meeting on historic preservation projects.
Imagine trying to get all that to fly at a Middleboro town meeting? Without a program like CPA, opportunities like these slip past and the town is left patting itself on the back for the kneejerk responses and crisis management that passes for preservation in this town.
Themocracy
I am so conflicted here.
We came from Sharon, another town that generally isn't afraid of taxes.
My impression of Middleboro is that you have too many people who are too afraid of someone "wasting" their precious tax dollars that they don't see the big picture: it's a deficient town because they MAKE it so by watching every penny so suspiciously.
I haven't gone to any recent TM's. That's partly because I half agree with those who say Oak Pointers have no right to spend your money.
Half agree, but that's enough to make me reluctant to go.
I used to be a fiscal conservative. I quickly realized that is just dumb. It's far better to have a little "waste" than not have enough to have a decent community.
Yeah, I know: blood from a stone. It's difficult, I agree.
One of the big factors in Mboro, IMO, is an inherent distrust and dislike of any government above the local level.
Current and former selectmen often show disdain for regionalization things like SRPEDD, and anything that's a (cue scary music) state program.
CPA is a great program – I have difficulty accepting that some people just don't agree. That's a failing of mine.
CPA is the best thing going, right now for community savings.
It is, in my opinion, equal to a 401 K offer from the company one is working for. The match helps for your future.
Well, the CPA and it's match helps for the entire community's future and the future community.
For the meager amount of money certain indivduals would pay in their real estate taxes, there are a lot of things that can be accomplished.
Why does Middleborough have to stay behind the times and act ignorant of these savings when just a few people are afraid of government?
In essence, most of us, are afraid of government, but that does not mean that we all roll over and die so that a few can get everything.
This past Monday, the town helped considerably to save the water supply of New Bedford by purchasing property surrounding that water. If the purchase was not made, the land would be developed and sewearge could become an issue to the well sites in that area.(Middleborouh's well sites.) The town needed to raise the amount of $100,000.00 dollars of an $850,000.00 amount.
What will happen in the future, if we can not raise that kind of money for future purchases of land to save well sites and other valuable things? The CPA would make it so we would not have that problem.
Our town has the second largest area of land in the state. It also has a huge water aquifer and also has a lower standard of living than other towns. This all spells out "development". With Plymouth Rock Studio coming to Plymouth comes many executives and employees looking to relocate. It is a good possibility that many will come to Middleborough. If that happens, here comes the developers, again.
Please, question, question and question, what the CPA stands for and why it can help and just exactly how does the government interfere. Don't take the words of the few antigovernment past officials in this town as the "Gospel". You will find that the savings far surpass any alterior motive that these individuals are trying to get each of us to believe.
Start rolling pennies and nickles and that will pay for the yearly CPA tax. About $24.00 a year.
Bumpkin,
I know you've covered this a number of times, but exactly how does money from the town get into the CPA fund?
Money from fees from the Registry of Deeds for real estate transactions in Middleboro currently are paid into the overall CPA fund, and those are in turn used to fund the matching state funds to towns who participate in CPA? Then in addition, residents pay a small percentage of their current real estate tax into the CPA fund for the town, and that amount is matched by the state at a percentage rate set by the state?
Do I have that correct?
If we don't participate its almost like someone forcing you to contribute to a fund to pay for other people leasing cars.
But then saying, for an additional small contribution, not only will you get to lease a car too, but we will give you gas money as well.
There's a lot of smart people in Middleboro but there doesn't seem to be a lot of common sense.
That's exactly right Smoking Owl.
Some pending legislation would set the match at 75%.
Even if the state match was 20%, it's still 20% that we're not getting now. Even at 0% I still like CPA – it would give us a set and known amount of money so that we could plan things with more foresight.
The current plan is "Hey Joe is selling some land – let's scramble at TM and buy it" or "Hey, this historic school hasn't been maintained and is falling apart – let's do something quick"
Mark you said:
The current plan is "Hey Joe is selling some land – let's scramble at TM and buy it"
Assuming you are referring to the last two purchases of land in the Blackbrook area, your statement is incorrect.
About 15 years of continuous work was spent on acquiring the entire Blackbrook Area. It was no accident.
Don't take my word for it, call the Planning Department and ask. I won't bother going into the details. You can do the homework.
Assuming you are referring to the last two purchases of land in the Blackbrook area, your statement is incorrect..
Wrong assumption. I'm talking about Middleboro's overall lack of a plan for preserving the varied things that tools like CPA would provide.
I also feel that my money would go a lot further if it was leveraged by the state match and potential grants that come with CPA.
IMO, we are ignoring the most potent tool available.
Cannot compare Middleboro to Easton. Middleboro is a more conservative town both fiscally and politically and they watch their pennies since they have less. Just compare the unemployment, income levels, education levels and other substantive vita of both towns and you see a distinct difference.
Bob Sullivan understands the local culture and has set the wheels in motion for a potential override. It can be done just as CPA can be done and a myriad of other things have been accomplished to improve the town. The process is slow and the consensus building takes time and effort. Understand your audience.
You must be kidding with the statement "The process is slow and the consensus building takes time and effort" Did you live here in 2007?
If folks in Middleboro are so fiscally conservative, why don't they mind fees from real estate transactions in Middleboro going into a fund to match other town's CPA contributions?
We are currently, in a roundabout way, contributing to a program that we are not reaping benefits from.
CPA is money in the bank, and what could be more fiscally conservative than squirreling away money in the bank for a rainy day?
No I am not "kidding" and the failure of many issues is just that – consensus building. And that is exactly why the casino became such a mess but the focus of this thread is on CPA and there are significant difference between Mboro and Easton that contribute to a different mindset.
IMO CPA failed because of the method and that has zero to do if I think it sucks or is wonderful. A project such as CPA takes considerable time and effort with much groundwork. Then you have to deal with Mboro residents and how they view any money issue.
Owl…it how it is viewed by the locals and it is viewed as just another tax and a sneaky one at that. This has nothing to do with how you or I feel about it but everything about how the general population views it. Change the mindset and change the outcome. That may be starting to happen. If this had appeal to them it would have been a done deal years ago and would have been passed back a half dozen years or so ago. And, yes, this is a fiscally and politically conservative town.
If the idea is to rant on about this mindset of the loals then go for it since it will acomplish nothing.
This town has a history of protecting and purchasing land and that has been documented by others. That shows that there is a distinct possibility CPA will eventually be accepted.
Bogo, I understand what you're saying. I'm only wondering why locals feel that way. What in CPA would make Middleboro residents feel like there is something sneaky about it?
Is it because the BOS has done some sneaky things in the past and now people don't feel like they can trust any program originating from the government?
The BOS just raised our taxes and I think I read the average increase will be about $260 on our property taxes. Where is the outcry about that? If opponents to CPA use the argument that a 1% increase in taxes will put people out of their homes, then this recent tax hike will surely accomplish that much more quickly than CPA.
Has little to do IMHO, Owl, with how folks feel about the BOS or any other appointed or elected offical.
This is a place where the remnants of Swamp Yankee's still reside and that is not a negative term. A local version of the old "Show Me" state philosophy with a streak of parsimony firmly embedded with a touch of caution and a whole lot of independance.
Some may say the CPA is money for nothing and I can't dispute that but the feeling may be if it is too good to be true….
When I look at the historical body of work that the town has done for preservation and land acquisition I assume that when framed correctly and with economic upswing it would pass.
When I see a town that has one of the highest unemployment rates and lowest median incomes in the county I can understand the reluctance to spend a few dollars more.
I expect it to eventually pass.
Smoking Owl is so right.
I do not know if the taxes are expected to go up to that figure, but I do know that more people will have serious housing issues, if this is true.
It is not the BOS that is being blamed when they say "government", it is the state interference fear.
The town does have a history of making land purchases for preservation. But what is the record on spending for affordable housing and recreation? The town raises the money to purchase land but what happens after that? Is there ever any funds left over for some kind of development of those properties?
I hope people start to realize the money the town allocates for land purchases could be used in other areas if CPA money was used for those preservation projects instead.
Bogo, I hope you're right and eventually voters will see the benefit of CPA, not only as a tool for preservation, but also as a way to free up funds for other projects in town that would otherwise be used for preservation projects.
Generally speaking, there is no money left over, after the purchase of the property. The goal is to just purchase it to conserve it.
The people should be helping to utilize the property for recreational purposes or other purposes.
Good example is Soule Farm. The goal was to keep developers away. Than the town formed a committee and the goal became using it for agricultural and cultural enrichment. It has been very successful.
Now, the goal is to do a pavilion(10×40) for culture and for families at Pratt Farm.
For many years now, there has been a Pratt Farm Festival. The money raised will go for that. However, it is just a drop in the bucket. Donations are needed, more fund raisers and any other means to get this accomplished.People in the community, need to show up and have fun , and educate others about these endeavors to show support.
What I am trying to say is, that it is up to the people to draw support for ideas of useage of the lands purchased.
The entire concept of the purchases is to conserve the land from danger and developers that would take the land away for ever. Once land is gone you can not get more. Therefore, we need to protect as much as possible for future generations and for present recreation and culture and agriculture.
There are reports done (at the town hall) that should be on dvd's , that support the beliefs of how much land should be saved and suggestions for useage.We pay good money to have these reports done.
That was what the Open Space Survey was recently done for. For future references and knowledge of what the people want in the town.
That survey is then used for community grants and other purposes.
Smoking Owl:
You said:
But what is the record on spending for affordable housing and recreation?
I can aswer you quickly about spending on recreation:
Middleboro has more recreationally than virtually any other town of similar demographics.
We have two sets of public tennis courts, two swimming pools, two football fields, many soccer and baseball fields and basketball courts, a skateboard/bike park, 2 play grounds for kids, over 7 square miles of open space for horse riding, bird watching, hiking, hunting, snowmobiling, cross country skiing, and ponds for fishing and skating, and dedicated river access.
Middleboro has more recreationally than virtually any other town of similar demographics..
I don't doubt that you believe that to be true, but I also doubt that you have figures to back up that statement.
Today I went for a great ride with the family on a 4 mile paved bike trail that ran through the heart of Fairhaven. Gates, painted lines, handicap accessible crossings at the numerous roads it crossed over. There is NOTHING in Middleboro that is even close. While we do have some decent recreational assets, the open space ones are generally underdeveloped, poorly advertised, and lacking in areas that would attract usage(paving, trail maps, web sites, and so on)
Let us not forget, CPA is also an additional tax
For those of us who believe government wastes much of our money, and government employee unions are ripping off the taxpayers, another tax is unacceptable.
I would vote for CPA if the town would take it out of what I already pay. It's not the point of the 50.00/yr it would cost me, it's everything added up. My RE taxes went up 250.00 this year alone. Sales tax went to 6.25, and was added to beer, wine and hard liquor.
Cut my RE taxes by 1-2%, implement a 1-2% CPA, get an additional 30%-75% for open space and historical preservation. I agree with Mark, this is a no-brainer and would be a good investment for the town.
No New Taxes, Please!!
I'd love to see the CPA money come out of the existing taxes – but don't see any way for that to happen.
Tell us how Fairhaven and Middleboro are similar in demographics. Please be complete.
Were you on the 3.5 mile Phoenix Bike trail that is an abandoned railway that runs along the ocean? Last time I checked we have no ocean. But many other towns with ocean front and demographics similar to Faihaven have paved bike trails as well.
Yes, I believe my statement to be true.
I see you found the trail we talked about. Here is the link to the Fairhaven Trail.
http://nbwclub.org/announcements/Matta_bikepath/phoenix_trail.html
There are actually several other trails that branch off this one but not for bikes.
I had contacted the Rails to Trails about a Mboro project but this was years ago and they do have a substantial backlog of requests.
Lincoln – Frankly I sick of your demands when you refuse to answer any questions yourself such as what were the monikers used during many many many many many hours of (non-obsessive) posting about me?
Why don't you provide us with the studies that compare recreational facilities by town broken down by demographics. Surely you were drawing on studies like that when you said "Middleboro has more recreationally than virtually any other town of similar demographics. "
Oh – and please be complete.
I am certain my statement is true. I have done the research.
You correlated Middleboro and Fairhaven. Let ask a more simplistic question. Do you really believe Middleboro and Fairhaven are similar in demographics?
Fairhaven, IMO, is more in line with Mataposiett and Marion; the so called "Tri-Town" area that plans to link the ocean side bike trails.
I was initially simply answering a question Smoking Owl asked. You then said that I did not believe what I wrote.
I am certain my statement is true. I have done the research..
By all means, please share that research with us.
You correlated Middleboro and Fairhaven. Let ask a more simplistic question. Do you really believe Middleboro and Fairhaven are similar in demographics?.
It's an irrelevant question since I made no statement that they were similar. You seem to be saying that Fairhaven's demographics entitle them to an asphalt walking trail that is very well maintained, suitable for families with strollers, and that provides a free healthy activity.
By inference, that means that you think Middleboro's demographics don't entitle it a top notch hiking/biking trail.
Please explain that reasoning/logic in detail.
And – oh – please be complete.
Lincoln
Big money was paid for engineer studies on open space, just a few years ago.Wesson and Sampson.
You will find, that there were many suggestions made to increase recreational areas in Middleborough and upgrade the present ones.
Why does the BOS ask for these studies to be made if they are not going to be read and recommendations accepted?
There is another way to raise money for conservation of land. It is called Land Trusts.
Unfortunately, they do not give as much as is needed to protect the land, help with affordable housing and preserve historic sites.
The money for land trusts comes from real estate transactions. When a piece of property is sold, a certain percentage for a tax is applied to the sales price and is put into a town trust for land.
Again, another tax, but on another side of the coin.
Lincoln,
If the tri town area formation idea is to link through a bike trail because of the Atlantic Ocean being at their town sites, than Middleborough should become a tri town with Carver, Kingston and Plymton with bike trails following the historic trails along the Nemasket River and into the towns.
Exploiting the commodity of the town and the value of it's surrounding is what makes tourism and solves a very large problem of the economy.
I do not understand how your way of helping the employees of your factory and others is to shoot down a small tax that will enable a bigger problem be solved that will increase the revenue to solve a larger problem for the community that you love.
Preserve, conserve, build, and show all become ways to increase revenue and provide jobs.
I know that you know about the economic ways.You studied it in college and you live it daily as being the proud owner of a very successful business.
I made a long post earlier post under one of my pseudonyms addressing the above comments. I still await it's publication.
This is not a comment to which I will not reply:
"I do not understand how your way of helping the employees of your factory"
My employees have nothing to with any of this.
I have no problem with nasty things (or even lies like was done earlier) being posted about me under pseudonyms or "anonymous. However, please post using your real name if you are going to speak of my personal life or business.
Your comment, however, was not personal or nasty, and rather complimentary.
I don't have any comments awaiting moderation.
I don't think I've rejected any recently.
Over a trillion bucks being tossed out via stimulus and a few can't be grabbed for a nature trail? Mark…remember that place I took you to in Carver? Big sign on it as – I believe – a stimulus program or something very similar. Miles of trails.
The best trail now available for conversion is the old rail line that runs from Taunton to Easton. This is at least ten miles long.
A second one that could be quite substantial is in Bellingham and would run into Rhode Island. I've run several sections of it and it is another jewel waiting to be developed.
In Middleboro the best option right now is the system that runs along route 44 almost from the rotary. This could eventually connect to the one in Carver and also continue down all the way to Plymouth. The trails are there since I have run every one of them.
What most towns seem interested in is recreational areas that are multi use with sports fields and areas for other use such as Pierce Playground/Battis Field area. Even in that area a small bridge could access several miles of trails in the Barden Hill area.
The substantial areas that towns have seem to be a matter of luck of location such as Rocky Gutter and Myles Standish or the good fortune of someone leaving a pile of money to set aside land.
From my own experience Middleboro has some great areas now that are protected and substantial. So do several surrounding towns.
Lincoln,
the comment about your employees was made because you have told a number of people that you " break bread " on a daily basis with your employees and others and that they can not afford the money being asked for with the CPA.
It is all well and good to realize that we have stimulus money out there for projects. Truth be known, the stimulus money is being ended very soon.
Also, the projects for stimulus money has already been identified.
Grants are not always readily available for projects.
The grant writer needs to identify the project, recommend the project, show a need and interest and show how the community intends to participate in the risk of making certain the project will be completed according to rules and regulations of the grantee.
The towns people need to make clear that they are willing to help with the risk by volunteerism, donations and etc.
They also, have to be certain to answer surveys that are, totally confidential ,so that the grant writer can prove the need in that particular town.
Most federal and state grants are extremely competative and require many hours of time and research to prove the need over another towns need.
Some grants fall under the guidelines of the legislature and require input from the government. So if a project such as trails are wanted than years of preplanning is necessary.
Some grants such as the community block grant makes it so if your town has received it in the year before than you can not go for it the next year.
All projects need to be identified at the time of the grant application and must be very explicit with no changes made after the fact.
Thus, to assume that we can plan for those bike trails through the stimulus package is almost nill.
The best we can do under plans for funding for preservation, affordable housing, conservation and recreation on land already owned is the CPA fund or private donors. The private donor avenue is almost totally dried up through continuous requests of a very few individuals and businesses. The saturation point has almost been met.
The comment I made earlier was replying to Anonymous 9:07 PM. It was lengthy and I shall make a more brief reply.
The town has employed many consultants for many reports. I am very leery of consultants as they make more money by billing more hours. Some do not live up to fixed contracts. I specifically AM NOT referring to Weston and Sampson. I am speaking in general terms. The town has benefited very well by some consultants (the Town Manager Search Committee consultant being one)
The town commissioned a consultant to aid the Planning Board and town to update the Master Plan. Posted Community meetings were held at various locations throughout the town to determine how townspeople wanted our community to evolve. It was a very lengthy process. Many other towns were studied as well
(It is through this study and many studies that the comparable town demographics were made. The research is there BB if you want to access to the information)
Unfortunately these master Plan community meetings suffered from poor attendance. Not unlike BB's CPA meetings. People understandably have better things to do with their precious time. Unfortunately, this meant that our Master Plan was less than perfect document. The intentions were good. The participation was poor. A working document to serve the town was accomplished.
The Master Plan had to be updated to allow the town to participate in grants such as those provided by the the Wild Lands Trust for Black Brook. It is a necessity have a fairly recent Master Plan.
Other similar studies are those for the Open Space, personnel, and virtually every other aspect of town government. Once participate in the process, or watch it closely, these studies keep popping up. In total a working overview of how Middleboro compares with towns can be ascertained.
BUT, just because a study is commissioned does not mean we have to follow the consultants recommendations, nor does it mean the study is fundamentally correct. it is a point of reference. You are very correct that too few people actually read the studies.
I trust Town Meeting to sniff things out better than any consultant. The reports do provide framework for elected officials and voters.
There is a wealth of information stored away. I suggest if you are interested that you read all the studies that pertain to your proclivities.
On a side note. At least we have more people per citizen capita reading our studies than Nation has Congressmen and Senators reading bills upon which they vote. How many read the Bail Out Bill or will read the health care bill in totality? (Please excuse my commentary, but it is very frustrating)
This is somewhat rambling as I typed it very quickly and did not proof read it at all. But you all get the gist.
Your response is very concise and very appropriate, Linc.
However, it needs to be pointed out that the reason why these studies are made,for the most part,is because of mandates that have to be met for the current time frame of grants the towns are competively going after.
That was the reason why the open space survey recently had to be done. Forgive me if I am wrong, won't be the first and won't be the last time, but the open space study has to be updated every five years or no community grants can be applied for, for recreation, parks or land purchases.
The town would not agree to spend these feasibility study monies or surveys or engineering consultant studies as often as they do if there was not a direct correlation between the present report and study and the need to fulfill an obligation by the community for a specifc grant request.
All that I am trying to accomplish in these forums with you and is to show a direct correlation between studies, surveys, grants, and CPA.
Because, Linc, there are direct correlations between all of them and constraints to be met by a town to get a piece of the pie.
Agreed