Hal’s trip to CT casinos
A meeting of the ……. minds
There is an interesting article on casino-friend by pro-casino luminary Hal Brown about his first-ever trip to a casino when he visited Foxwoods and Mohegan Sun recently.
I’m going to break with my tradition of never linking to his site due to what I perceive as accusations of racism against CasinoFacts.org. I’ve moved on somewhat and in fact Hal and I had a very special moment in the shower at the YMCA recently – proving conclusively that anti-casino people and pro-casino people can coexist and can even engage in polite discourse …. especially when they’re both buck naked. Not since “Psycho” has there been a more horrifying shower scene – but in the end we both had a good laugh about it and perhaps made some progress moving past the casino issue or at least putting it into its proper perspective along with everything else going on in town. But I digress.
CT casinos according to Hal
I’ll give Hal credit for admitting that eyebrows will be raised by his staunch support for the casino and the fact that he has never gone to one before now. The article is generally negative on the casinos and ends with a hope that somehow our casino will be different. I’ll include a few quotes and advise you to read the article for yourself.
There is more to the article including pictures, a section titled “Lessons for Middleboro” and Hal’s conclusions.
Surprise – I disagree
As stated, I’ll give Hal some credit for putting this out there and exposing himself to criticism. I couldn’t disagree more with him on this – no surprise there. I think the cons outweigh the pros by a long shot. I find the idea of elderly people using a casino as a social activity to stave off loneliness or depression to be completely abhorrent. There are others besides Hal that count this as one of the benefits of a casino – the whole idea leaves me completely flummoxed.
But Hal – let’s take this up during our next shower and show these Pro/Con people how grown-ups separate politics from people.
Themocracy
Good gracious! Yes, let’s give those who are clinically depressed another reason not to seek help. In fact, let’s bring this faux cure closer to home in the hopes of attracting more of the clinically depressed – who in turn won’t seek help because they’re having so much fun tuning out, drinking free and losing money.
Could this admission be Hal’s first cry for help? Could he have begun to see the forest for the trees (or maybe the casino for the trees)? Did he end his field trip at the casino and choose not to go into the communities because it was all too much truth too fast?
Hal is putting a lot of hope on the Middleboro casino being different from it’s predecessors. In fact, it will be worse. They’ll cut as many corners as they can to generate new generations of addicts, and to expand against the threat of ever-escalating competition. And those future generations won’t have had the priviledge of having been around to say NO CASINO! They’ll be stuck with it forever.
DO THE RIGHT THING NOW.
(Mark writes) “I find the idea of elderly people using a casino as a social activity to stave off loneliness or depression to be completely abhorrent. There are others besides Hal that count this as one of the benefits of a casino – the whole idea leaves me completely flummoxed.”
I agree in general, although I wouldn’t use the word abhorrent because I think sitting alone at home is worse. I thought I made it clear this seemed very sad to me. That’s why I wrote about increasing services from the COA. Frankly I naively actually believed some of what you see on TV about gambling being a social activity and what I saw was anything but. Even many of the couples I saw seemed to be in their own worlds. Of course there were exceptions and I assume there would be more later at night.
(I wrote:) Having seen all the solitary gamblers yesterday, I believe many of them are lonely and some may be staving off clinical depression through gambling in a setting astutely designed to create the illusion of fun, good times and happiness.
I believe they should be afforded this opportunity and shouldn’t have to travel to Connecticut to do so. This being said, I believe programs like the Council on Aging should be expanded. There should be more outreach to the elderly. A COA trip to a casino is far preferable for the mental health of a senior citizen than a visit alone. The COA should have the staff to engage recent widows and widowers and draw them into social programs. They should be funded at a level which makes them as state of the art a program as I have recommended for our programs to deal with problem gambling.
To answer Mary Tufts about why we didn’t visit the towns, it was dark and we wouldn’t have seen much. I explained that to learn anything of substance from such a visit would be a real project involving talking both to ordinary people and officials and that I’d rely on reports from others who did this.
Mary, I am not merely putting hope “on the Middleboro casino being different from the others” in positive ways. I am advocating for this any way that I can. This is the main reason I wrote the latest article and my other unflinchingly honest articles about gambling addiction.
Hal: I look forward to your report from your first visit to a crack house. I predict you will find that they sell crack. And that there are many pathetic drugs addicts. And that much money is being made.
On my field trip, I traveled through a town adjacent to Foxwoods – much like Bridgewater would be to a Middleboro casino. I traveled down a road, much like the road I live on – which would go directly to this proposed casino. Without leaving my car, I was able to see houses shuttered up, with aution signs on their yards. I saw businesses closed and a porn shop on the route to the scools. I know this shop hadn’t been there before because I’ve read an account of the town before and after Foxwoods came from one of it’s selectmen. And I reiterate, this was the next town over, not the host community.
As far as your concern for seniors – I am more concerned for children and future generations who will be the future addicts generated by your unflinching desire to advocate for a closer place to gamble.
Lonely seniors + future addicts + lives ruined generations to come = a sad thing to spend your life advocating for.
I read this article this morning and also found it to be very interesting. Hal, I think it is great that you went for yourself to check it out…I also think it’s great that you were apparently quite honest in your assessment of your experience, and your article was a good read. But I too am flummoxed that you still believe that a casino will be good for Middleboro. You say people didn’t look happy or look like they were having fun…isn’t the idea of “world class entertainment” susposedly a pro for a casino in Middleboro? I guess you can scratch that one off your pro list. You then continue on to say that the buildings are ugly and got into some detail about it – yes they are ugly and yet you are supporting that exact type of development in your town. I know you hold out hopes that this casino will be different….it won’t. Developers don’t care what it looks like on the outside…they want you inside and the inside is all that matters.
The idea that elderly people are going to casinos to stave of lonliness or depression is depressing in itself. I understand that you think it worse to sit at home alone…but I think what is even worse is sitting at home alone hungry and cold because you blew all your money at a casino and can’t buy food or heat your house. Again I say, casinos will not fix the problems…they will add to them.
Hey Gladys…if the clinically depressed don’t seek help, what do you think Middleboro will do with all that extra cash that has been set aside for them?! What was that extraordinary amount set aside to mitigate compulsive gambling……20K?
Great article, but I just can’t get passed the image of Hal in the shower!
Did he have his ever-present annoying camera with him?
Are you sure?
Hal Brown posted the following comment:
I’m not an enthusiastic fan of casinos for reasons you can read on Casino-Friend.com. I wish there was another equally lucrative economic engine for town and tribe. Casino gambling is probably coming. We now have a golden opportunity, to paraphrase the Johnny Mercer / Harold Alren song, accentuate the positive and mitigate the negative.
The $7 million alone will be gone for a new school and new students.
Then what?
New police station?
Hal’s advocating more COA services. Hal, why don’t you volunteer and start up those services.
Maybe you could even get the casino investors to give you money for your loyalty and support.
Ca-ching! Ca-ching!
And don’t forget the cuts in state aid because of the $7 million.
Those boarded up buildings in CT?
Look at all the homes surrounding Precinct St. that the Rapist Raven promised to buy.
This will bankrupt the town!
Even the Governor’s number for commercial casinos don’t add.
Anonymous said “Hal’s advocating more COA services. Hal, why don’t you volunteer and start up those services.
Maybe you could even get the casino investors to give you money for your loyalty and support.”
Sorry to say anoymous, Section 4 (Mitigation Measures) as outlined in the agreement clearly states – the parties agree that the Local Impact Payments to be made pursuant to Section 5 are made in lieu of all taxes and other assessments otherwise due to the Town of Middleborough and/or the Town’s departments, boards or commissions including, but not limited to, its school district and police and fire departments.
It goes on to say – the payments constitute the Tribe’s mitigation efforts and are in full and complete satisfaction of all local government impacts whether or not identified in this Agreement.
Eeek! No more money will be given for schools…police. COA or anything else that may rear it’s ugly head once the casino is built. Its a done deal and the only winner’s are the casino investors.
Hal-
While I do respect the fact that you traveled to Foxwoods and Mohegan, I am astonished that you could have been so pro-casino, not knowing first hand what casinos were like….it sort of compares to saying “yes” to an agreement without having any blueprints or knowing the real impacts to the town.
So all this time, you really had no idea why you were for such a monstrosity in this town, besides what you’ve seen on T.V. or what others have told you. Is that what you based your strong convictions on?
The lonely elderly you speak of…will only have their problems compounded by going to a casino, not remedied. Casinos are all business, they don’t exist to help people….only to make money.
carverchick, surely, after all of Hal’s support: waving signs, wearing feathers, taking all those obnoxious photos while swinging from chandeliers, posting endlessly about how stupid the casino opponents were, surely his unwavering support will be recognized by those great appreciative international investors?
You think not?
But, but, but, …didn’t the Rapist Raven promise …..?
Maybe Hal could volunteer his time which he seems to have too much of….
Too all members of CFO and Casino Friends that have never been to a Casino/Resort I would like you to be my guest for a Bus tour exactly like Hal went on, But narrated and explained by ME!
I will take you there, Explain the goings on, Then you can make an informed decision as to the what, why and where of whats going on at the resort.
Here is your chance, If you never been, Im offering a bus tour of resorts the surrounding towns everything. This would be an all day event take notes and report back.
I would love to see 12 Casino friends and 12 Cfos make the trip!
What do you think?
Can this be done.
I will be your host and tour guide for the day. BYODrink and BYOFood.
We will visit.
Twin rivers
Foxwoods
Mohegan
Lincoln RI
New London CT.
Norwich CT.
Mystic CT.
Here is a beautiful full day tour of everything, all questions should be answered after this tour
traffic,designs,gaming etc! etc!
We will go to the Submarine base thats my favorite Museum in New London.
You all want to come together here’s your chance.
508-386-3932 to reserve your seat!
We can make a date thats agreeable to everyone involved.
First come, first serve 24 people total.
Bus tour is on me. Fun and excitement is on you.
I appreciate the generally snark-free comments. Those who know how I react to rude responses to my attempts to engage in civil debate on message boards can attest to the fact that I won’t participate in discussions where people are more interested in sniping at me than challenging or persuading me.
Dan Kennedy’s comment really doesn’t ask for a response, but I wil say that years ago I did have some experience with the 1970′s versions of crack houses (heroin in those days), as a youth worker, doing mental health outreach, and then as an auxiliary cop. I address this only because the argument is faulty and sensationalized. These places are frequented only by addicts while casinos are frequented by 95% non-addicts, and even the 5% who are problem gambler are engaging in a legal activity.
Mary, your observations of the areas near the casinos are interesting. I’d want to try to figure out how much ot the deterioration of the neighbohood was due to the casinos and how much to a downturn in the economy. Meanwhile, there’s a porn shop reputed to be a place for anonymous homosexual liaisons on Route 44 and nobody is blaming Lowes or WalMart or the auto mile.
More seriously, I am just as concerned about future generations as you are. That’s why I advocated for a great deal more money going to gambling addiction education (prevention), research and treatment. The three former are just as vital as the last.
Mary, you use the word “advocate” twice in your comment as if I am just advocating for a casino. In fact I am advocating for lots more than a casino.
I recognize that there are many problems associated with having a mega-casino in Middleboro, and that assuming we end up having one, we need to put our best brains together to mitigate them.
Carver Chick, if you think I was an absolute pro-casino zealot I can see why you’d be flummoxed that I “still believe that a casino will be good for Middleboro.”
But from the very beginning I knew there were pros and cons, and that the cons were significant and needed to be analyzed without prior bias influencing the conclusions.
The more I heard from CasinoFacts the more I tried to separate exaggeration, fears and hyperbole from guesswork, predictions and worst case scenarios.
What I concluded is that some of the CFO facts were predictions, some were based on studies like Grinois and Mustard that have been questioned by subsequent studies, some based on anecdotal reports, and some quite legitimate but amenable to mitigation.
I concluded that Middleboro could gain a significant revenue source and offer better jobs for more of its residents by accepting the casino agreement.
But I also want to see and will advocate for mitigation of all the problems CFO, the Resort Study Committee, and others identify.
One anonymous poster is annoyed about my camera. Mark and Mary have cameras and took my picture at the last meeting. I use some of my pictures on the website, Mary uses hers on Glady Kravitz too. Some of my pictures have been published in the Gazette. All I can say is that folks will have to get used to me and my camera. If you’re at a public place you can have your picture taken.
But cameras are forbidden in the Y locker rooms.
Another from anonymous assumes that Rep. Tom Calter is correct in his estimate that 1,000 new students will flood our school. This is just his estimate. We don’t know how many people will move to Middleboro. It could be 8,000, although I think most employees won’t move here but will commute from where they already live.
It would be a huge cost if the schools had to provide for 1,000 more students. The agreement doesn’t include a clause providing for per-student payments, but I expect if this flood of new students happened we and all towns in the region who experienced similar increases would go to the state to demand increased school funding. Note the following from the agreement:
Section 7. Commonwealth Payments to the Town.
In addition to the Local Impact Payments described in Section 5 above, the Parties acknowledge that the Town may receive monies directly from the Commonwealth pursuant to the terms of the Compact or other Agreement with the Commonwealth or through legislation.
In recognition of the benefits to the Commonwealth from the Town hosting the Project, in its discussions with the Commonwealth, the Tribe agrees to support the
Town’s effort to receive a reasonable portion of any payments which the Tribe agrees to pay to the Commonwealth and further agrees that whatever sums paid to the Town by the Commonwealth will not be deducted from payments made by the Tribe to the Town under this Agreement.
An anonymous suggests I should volunteer at the COA. I’m well aware of where I can volunteer and will consider how I can contribute based on my interests and skills.
Jacquie’s comment about being astonished I could be so pro-casino before seeing what they were like first hand I deserve. In my defense, if you read over the archives of casino-friend you will see that I gradually began to address negatives, especially gambling addiction, early on and have continued to do so.
Finally, this post by anonymous, is the kind of comment that usually drives me off a message board:
“Carverchick, surely, after all of Hal’s support: waving signs, wearing feathers, taking all those obnoxious photos while swinging from chandeliers, posting endlessly about how stupid the casino opponents were, surely his unwavering support will be recognized by those great appreciative international investors?
You think not?
But, but, but, …didn’t the Rapist Raven promise …..?
Maybe Hal could volunteer his time which he seems to have too much of…”
Vitriolic and sarcastic messages like this are not advancing debate and say more about the person who writes them than the person they’re written about.
Ok – guys. Hal has taken his lumps and been a good sport about it.
So far the comments have been generally OK – let’s keep it that way.
I’ve read the article. I’m a little surprised that Hal didn’t give percentages of people gambling alone and together as couples.
I also would have liked to see Hal conclude maybe the Middleboro BOS should have made a similar fact finding trip to CT BEFORE they signed the agreement.
I disagree with you, Hal, that casinos are here to stay. It is still too early to say.
Scott,
I don’t think percentages would have told us much since I understand time of day, and day of the week, make a big difference. We left Mohegan Sun at around 6PM and left Foxwoods a bit after 7PM, too early for the couples to really start arriving en masse on a Friday night.
I talked to a friend who goes to casinos a few times a year with his wife and another couple and he says they usually split up, the men go off to the table games and the women to the slots, and even there they don’t interact with each other much.
So it would have been impossible to give more than my general impression that a large majority seemed to be either alone or socially isolated, just at that time perhaps 80% or more.
As for whether casinos are here to stay or not I can’t predict. What possibly could be the saturation point when the last casino builds a billion dollar addition and finds they can’t make it profitable?
Note that Mohegan Sun has plans for
Project Horizon (Flashly and moisy LINK), set to open in 2010, it will add a “new 922-room hotel with 261 House of Blues-themed hotel rooms, which will be owned and operated by Mohegan Sun, along with a House of Blues Music Hall, restaurant and exclusive, members-only House of Blues Foundation Room™. It also calls for approximately 115,000 square feet of additional retail and restaurant space and the new 64,000-square-foot Casino of the Wind.”
First of all Hal, there’s such a thing as “blogger etiquette” in which blog commentors refer to bloggers by their blog name. For instance, if you had posted onto Bumpkin’s blog using a pseudonym such as, for example, Stressline08 or SpeedoBoy or Cryptkeeper, I would have responded to you as such. As it is, you used your name, so that is the name I used in my responses. Occasionally a mystery blogger, who doesn’t provide their real name is “outed” by the use of their real name in postings. But I don’t hide my identity on my blog, so there is no need to “out” me in this manner. I know Carverchick’s real name as well as Bumpkin’s and Mr. Limo’s, but I refer to them by the name they use on the post in question, as is dictated by the unwritten rules of blogger etiquette, which most people seem to inherently understand. I mention this because you seem very concerned about tone in some of your comments, so I thought I’d just point out that when you use an established blogger’s real name instead of the pseudonym they’re using, it’s perceived as disrespectful. And you might want to be aware of that.
Second, thank you for keeping the rest of your own comments relatively tone-free. However, while perhaps your fans (if you have them) do read your web site and buy into your perspective, when most anti-casino folks read some of the things you write, the effect is not unlike being under the care of that third shift nurse who pats your head, tucks you in, tells you everything’s going to be alright – and who then quietly euthanizes you before turning off the light and going home.
I stopped reading your site long ago when I realized it had nothing to offer except that it made me angry, and forced me to spend countless hours wondering what your real motivations were. And along the way I discovered that responding to you and certain others, is a waste of valuable time that I could be using more productively in research and action on the behalf of a cause that is actually worth my efforts. I think most people have the sense to read your comments and see, for themselves the hypocrisy there.
As for taking photographs, you present yourself on paper as a photographic observer. In reality however, I have this vivid memory of you sticking your camera into a woman’s face and taking a photo, and when she asked you to stop, you did it again. Then she got angry and waved her finger at you. In retaliation, later that evening, you disrupted a meeting at the town hall by bringing in police officers to let you ‘exercise your right’ to snap off about 50 photos of the woman and other the other people in attendance before the officers asked you (several times) to stop. You then published unflattering photos of the woman on your web site. Let’s face it – you were responding with anger that evening, not professionalism. In fact, you cover yourself with the blanket of your profession whenever it serves you. You’re not fooling anyone. At least Mr. Limo is honest about his motivation for shilling for a casino. Your motivations, as you present them, are unconvincing. Your unspoken motivations – those are what is truly compelling.
I don’t see how responding to the previous post would advance debate on the issues.
We’ve beaten this horse to death – and I don’t mean Hal.
I’ll won’t be publishing any more comments on this post.
-Bumpkin
Hal,
In fairness, you have been obnoxious with your camera and sticking it in people’s faces.
When people have politely requested that you not take their pictures, you have adamently refused to respect them.
You have disrupted meetings by climbing over the furniture and behind media crews to do so, even while the PROFESSIONAL MEDIA did its best not to disrupt the meetings with their extensive equipment.
For you to criticize ANYONE who condemns your truly obnoxious conduct, you need to consider how truly offensive you have been at meetings.
In addition, somewhere, on one of the blogs, you were asked a question about a meeting that you attended. You were unable to answer the question because you were too focused on annoying people by taking pictures to pay attention to the meeting.
In fairness, Bumpkin, taken his lumps? Not enough for his offensive conduct, but I’ll play nice after this!
My intention responding to comments here is to debate the issues raised by the description of my visit to the casinos. I will not get sidetracked into explaining or defending my reasons for, and manner of, documenting all aspects of the human side of the casino story with photographs.
Those who are interested in photographer’s rights and their own expectations of privacy in a public place can read this.
I guess you can scratch that one off your pro list. You then continue on to say that the buildings are ugly and got into some detail about it – yes they are ugly and yet you are supporting that exact type of development in your town.
===================================
johnvicter
Addiction Recovery Connecticut
I agree with the author, I have been going to mohegan sun and foxwoods once every three weeks for the past year. I have lost 90% of the times. I am one of those solitary players, I am 26yo single with a stable job but no much else. The casinos have been my fun destination, i can barely concentrate on my job the friday before my weekend trip.I usually drive on saturdays to mohegan sun and start with slots, the wolk my way around to the blackjack tables. It gets very depresing each time after 10 hours of playing going hungry cuz time is too precious to stop and eat smth. If things go well at mohegan sun, I stop laying ang go to foxwoods to try my luck there. Usually I lose everything i have and make several trips to the ATM. I have lost around 10K at the casinos and have decided to stop going there stop playing all lotteries and all other games of chance. Money is not my goal, it is simply the way to reach my objectives, which are prety simple to do with my current job
Tony – I wish you the best and hope you are able to stop.
If you can’t, I would urge you to get professional help.
Though I have no expertise in this area, you can contact me directly – mark dot j dot belanger at gmail dot com
Hal,
You state that there are more pros than cons to the casino being in Middleboro. I disagree, but respect your right to your opinion.
My confusion is what exactly are the positives to a casino?
I can think of only one and that would be money for the town.
Since at this time we have at least one selectman who believes that we will not financially benefit from the casino deal as written. Do you think maybe we should get out while we have a chance?
It is fact that lies have been told by members of the tribe and the investors. It is my opinion that the town has been duped and damaged already by this process.
Why would the twon want to enter into a deal that -#1 is not financially benefical and #2 is with criminals who already lied and attempted to take advantage of the town.
I will accept no answer as your response. I see we agree.
NO CASINO